Chicken Soup for the Clinton Supporter

The title sounds like this would be from a long-time Obama supporter, n'est-ce pas? Well, it's not; one look at my diary history will tell you that much. I'm finding, somewhat to my surprise, that I got over the disappointment of Clinton's loss a while ago, because it's really been a foregone conclusion for a while (anytime Slate.com has a Deathwatch for you, you might as well pack it in, I guess [although I'm glad the life preserver buoyed her up some at the end! 8^) ]).

I do have a serious question for all y'all out there, and I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I ask it from the bottom of my heart.

As a Clinton supporter and life-long Democrat, I find myself not able to shift gears, even though, like I said, I knew it was over a while back (like, um, Iowa). For me, it's not even so much that I was an ardent Clinton fan (I have/had plenty of problems with her, especially lately, though I love her for what she's done in the past), but more that I just didn't (and still don't, if I'm being honest) believe in Obama as president.

The reasons I've had are many and complicated and aren't worth going into (if you really want that for context, read my last diary), but those reasons aren't just going to flitter away when Barack and Hillary raise their arms together this Saturday. Right now, I still wouldn't feel right voting for him. When I hear him talk, I still think of Elmer Gantry. When I hear friends of mine praise him, I still think of Chance the Gardener. Would I vote for McCain? A thousand times no. But there is a part of me that fears that I'll never be able to get behind this candidate, even if I can recognize his talents.

But I'm not gonna give up on a Democrat, and I do want to get on board the Hopemobile, even if it's just enough to not have to metaphorically hold my nose in the voting booth. To borrow a computer term, I want to reboot. I want to try to re-introduce myself to Sen. Obama (and not wait until August when the convention will certainly try to do that for me).

My question to you all is this: How would you recommend doing that? What should I read, what should I watch, what should I understand in order to start from square one with him?

Someone on TPM recommended to me several weeks ago that I read his first book, "Dreams of My Father." I still may yet do that, though the English major in me balks at the idea of the lost father cliché. I'd like to hear if people agree that this is a good place to start and why.

I'm probably going to sit down in the next few days with my wife (a more ardent Clinton supporter than me) and watch his 2004 convention speech (I remember seeing it the first time around and thinking he was a wunderkind, but still a "-kind"). Are there any other speeches that you feel are good places to start?

I'm NOT asking for someone to write a manifesto in the comments on why Obama is great, but if there are diaries from the past (non-patronizing diaries, please!) that really spoke to you to sum up what you see as the measure of the man, please suggest that.

And finally, I ask for your patience. I completely respect that you have good reasons to support your candidate, because I respect all of us on here as good progressives and Democrats, and I only ask that you respect that I, also a good progressive and Democrat, have my legitimate reasons to still be skeptical.

That said, I hope you can help me out! Perhaps, in doing so, it will help foster that unity we all are hoping for.

(cross-posted at dKos)



Display:


Thank you to everyone in advance! (n/t) (2.00 / 2)


by xopherma on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:14:55 PM EST

Re: Chicken Soup for the Clinton Supporter (none / 0)

I humbly and respectfully suggest that you take some time before you do this.  Ignore everything in the news that is election related and avoid TV.  Maybe give it a week.  That would be my first suggestion for any reboot.

I've never read the book or seen the  convention speech, actually.  There was an article at Salon.com a few months ago about Michelle Obama that was very real and I loved it, I doubt that addresses your concerns.  Have you tried the issues section of his website? There are some very detailed sections there, if you are strictly an issues voter.  I don't really know what you are specifically looking for, but I'm trying to help.


by GreenHills on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:25:56 PM EST

Re: Chicken Soup for the Clinton Supporter (2.00 / 1)

Clinton supporters such as mayself who do not live in evidence-free zones, knew this race was over after the Indiana/North Carolina primaries. Most of us suspected in after Wisconson. In a way the death of the Clinton campaign can be compared to the death of an relative who has been ill and in pain for a long time. In that sense it can be, if not welcomed, accepted as for the best. The only way Clinton could have won was via a coup with superdelegates and the RBC. This would have been a Pyrrhic victory leading to almost certain defeat due to the huge defections which would have occured.

Hillary, rest in peace. Long live Hillary. Nixon lost the 1962 California Gubernatorial race and famously said "you won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore." In 1968, he was back with a vengeance. Hillary supporters can take comfort in the fact that Hillary has established her own base, independent of Bill. Her political possibilities for the future are unlimited.


by STUBALL on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:27:30 PM EST

Re: Chicken Soup for the Clinton Supporter (none / 0)

I was an Edwards supporter who still doesn't have the burning desire for Obama that I had for an Edward's Presidency.  That said, the things that moved me the most were interviews with average Obama supporters.  It wasn't what they said, in fact I am sure that some don't know very much about the positions, it was how energized they looked, how (dare I say it) hopefull.  It was a look I haven't seen much in politics in my entire adult life.

That poetry reading in YouTube "Obama rhymes with Osama," also brought tears to my eyes and I realized that whatever shortcomings Obama might have, he is bringing something that a lot of American people seem to need right now and he is a Democrat...that was enough for me.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:29:31 PM EST

Re: Chicken Soup for the Clinton Supporter (none / 0)

"I still think of Chance the Gardener"

I hardly think that the head of the Harvard Law Review was the image Jerzy Kosinski had in mind when he created Chauncy Gardner?

I think he was imaging George W. Bush, just ahead of his time.

But, since you seemed very sincere, I will only state how perspectives influence our mindset?

For example, I went into this really torn, I started out as a Biden supporter, but really didn't have a dog in the race between Obama and Clinton.

I think Clinton kicked his ass in the debates, I think he totally out strategized her in the primaries?

But, see if this is something that may resonate?

It's been about perception?

I think, she and Bill DID play the race card, South Carolina being the primary example?

I'm guessing you and probably your wife don't see that at all? I KNOW that is a perception chasm between the two camps?

I think the "McCain an I am qualified to be CIC, Obama just wrote a speech" was the single most reprehensible comment in the entire campaign?

Perhaps you and your wife think, not so much?

Again, the Obama supporters saw that as ugly, the Clinton folks, just a statment of fact?

Plenty of examples the other way?

What were seen as vicious attacks on Hillary from her camp were seen as "just politics" from the Obama camp?

So, as in that famous movie Rashamon, it's all about perception?

I see the most inspiring politician since my mom dragged me around to door-bell for JFK?

You see Chauncey Gardner?

So, I'm not sure if seeing him in person (I did here in Seattle) or watching his speeches will click that perception space for you?

Right now, I see Hillary and I shake my head, What is she thinking, that non-concession speech was awful?

But, I see the Clinton folks see it 180 degrees the other way?

I'm not sure that gap can be crossed, for a lot of folks? It is strange, I will grant you?

My only request is, it surely sounds like you are a true-blue Democrat?

If you can't, after watching the rest of the campaign, see Obama at least partially as we supporters see him, just leave the ballot blank and vote down ticket dem?

I can see that as a reasonable outcome.

But, anyone that votes for McCain and tells me they are a democrat is just being a spiteful pisshead IMHO.

Good luck to you in the rest of the campaign.


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:35:26 PM EST

i always found... (2.00 / 1)

these diaries to be handy to think about:

Obama's Illinois record:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/20 /152430/02

General Obama record primers:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/5/3 1939/13776
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/31/ 101415/820
Kid Oakland's excellent series of diaries:
why i support: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/17/ 172946/924/840/438514
technology: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/18/ 17568/7203/255/439107
health care: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/20/ 165422/309/193/440162
50 state strategy: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/22/ 191351/318/22/441358
coalition building: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/27/ 232141/238/937/444519
foreign policy: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/25/ 212158/864/126/443304
immigration reform: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/28/ 22328/7954/329/445127

A series of six diaries from JustAngry
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/20 /101819/09/539/424577


by Casuist on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:40:00 PM EST

This is great -- thank you! (n/t) (none / 0)


by xopherma on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:45:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Take your time (2.00 / 1)

It's difficult for me to put myself in your spot (I don't think Obama is an empty suit), but can we agree that everyone who cared about this primary race did some mental prep work to prepare for a worst-case scenario? (not just "my candidate lost" but "we got screwed).

Here's what I was going to tell myself if I had to force myself to make it to the polls on election day.

The Democrats have a four-year window to pass a comprehensive package to federalize health care.  If the Dems win in November, we'll have the votes to do something the party has been trying to accomplish for sixty years.

In 2012, it's likely that the Dems will start losing seats in the Senate, simply because we'll have more seats to defend (these things go in cycles, we're winning now because the GOP overextended itself in 2000, but in four years we'll be overextended, and will have to defend the seats we won in 2006).

These windows come every 15-20 years or so.  They're like the cicadas.  If the Dems don't hit the trifecta this year (White House, majority in the House, 60 seats in the Senate), we're not going to have this opportunity for a long time (even if the public wants this--a Republican veto or fillibuster would be enough to kill this bill, that's why the Clintons failed when they tried in 1992).

So suppose you're 69 years old.  How might your life have been different if Harry Truman had succeeded the first time around?  

And suppose you have a 9 year old grandchild?  How might his or her life be different if the federal government a system of universal insurance? (which, I'm convinced, is where this would all go, one can't take a few steps down this path without ending there).

For all of the emotions people have invested in these primaries, elections like this aren't really about the candidates.  If Truman had succeeded all those years ago there wouldn't be one person in a doctor's office or hospital today who gave him a moment's thought.  

And here's a bigger irony: if Obama is elected president Hillary Clinton will probably still have the bigger role devising a health care package and guiding it through the process (Congress passes legislation, the president signs it).  Ever get a Fulbright scholarship?  A Pell grant?  Ever hear of the Marshall Plan?

Clinton isn't going away.  But to get anything done, the Dems will need tools (and before the election that means money, time, and votes, and after, well, the votes of senators, congressmen, and the president).

Not saying you have to feel great about Obama.  It almost never happens at the end of a race that the supporters of a candidate will change their minds about who was best (sometimes it does, btw, 50% of Americans voted for JFK in 1960, three years later something like 70% claimed that they had, but this is rare).

If you believe in the values of the Democratic party, though, this is the sort of opportunity which only comes along once or twice in a lifetime (and btw, I'm too young to have ever seen this, since really we're talking about the level of power the Democrats last during the days of Johnson's Great Society--again, this is just about winning that trifecta).

So think it over.  You have some time.  

 


by IncognitoErgoSum on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:48:00 PM EST

Re: Take your time (2.00 / 1)

I agree with a lot of your points, but I don't think the diarist is considering NOT voting for Obama. Rather, I believe he truly wants to get EXCITED about Obama in the way some of us are.


by EvilAsh on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:12:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take your time (2.00 / 1)

Fair enough.  Again, I'd focus on the big picture.  The Dems have been playing defense since the Reagan/Bush smackdowns during the 1980s.  If the Dems win the White House this year, this will be the first time they've carried the ball for 40 years (except for this brief period in '93-4 when they didn't know what to do with it--a mistake I don't think they'll repeat).

Maybe it's just me, but I find this prospect incredibly exciting.  The Dems will be able to say, "Eat it!", to all of the Republicans who have caused us so much trouble over the years!  If the Dems reach 60 votes in the Senate, we can probably do anything.

Don't like the Supreme Court?  What about fixed terms for Supreme Court justices?  If the Dems play their cards right, that's the kind of power they'll have (they can clear the bench of Scalia, Thomas, etc.).

Don't like the electoral college?  The Dems could try to abolish it.  What's your pet issue?  Without the White House and the fillibuster, the GOP is a lion without teeth (heck, we could abolish the fillibuster).

To do this, though, the Dems have to win the White House and get 60 seats in the Senate (or close).  And they also have to dream big.


by IncognitoErgoSum on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:44:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, no, not quite. (none / 0)

While the number of Supreme Court Justices is not set by they US Constitution (hence FDR's attempt to change the number and "stack" the Court), the guidelines for their tenure is.  Thus, a Constitutional amendment would be required to establish fixed terms.

That would clearly be seen as Democratic Party "meddling" by Republican state legislators.


by aggieric on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 10:02:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was interrupted by a phone call, so didn't quite (none / 0)

finish - my point in commenting is that holding 60 seats in the Senate, a majority in the House and the White House will not be a panacea.  Because of Federalism, there are still limits, and because Dems run the gamut from uber liberal to uber conservative, there's plenty that the progressive blogosphere will expect that will simply not be achievable.


by aggieric on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 10:12:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chicken Soup for the Clinton Supporter (2.00 / 1)

Go to thomas.loc.gov and look at his record in the senate last year. Look at Hillary's, too. Read some of his bills. Look at the bills that he co-sponsored. Count the number of his bills that Hillary co-sponsored. Or of her bills that he co-sponsored.

It's nice to do your own research unfiltered by others agenda. I found that I was pleasantly reassured that about Obama's abilities, his priorities, and his agenda. The bills that he introduced last year cover a wide range of issues that are important to progressive. And compare very well with those introduced by Hillary.


by Grassroots Mom on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:59:03 PM EST

Re: Chicken Soup for the Clinton Supporter (2.00 / 1)

Try putting Al Giordano's The Field and The Jed Report on your daily recommended reading list.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:03:42 PM EST

Thank you for your honesty. (2.00 / 1)

I can understand your feelings. There were times when I believe that it was over for Obama (New Hampshire, Nevada) and I believed I would be stuck in the same place where you are now. How do I support this candidate that I just don't believe in?

I definitely agree you should begin with 'Dreams from My Father'. I, too, was an English major and I understand your apprehension. However, Obama is an astonishingly good writer. Good enough to make me a little jealous. (And yes, he wrote it himself. No ghost writers). The book will give you a good perspective on where he comes from and how he thinks. It was also written WELL before his political career, so it doesn't have that 'politician honoring himself' vibe.

My second suggestion is to read through the Wikipedia entry. The reason to do this is just to brush up on his unvarnished history, free of the spin and propaganda.

As far as speeches, I would actually avoid the prepared speeches. You may want to take a look at a couple from his Senate runs (because they hit on all the same themes as his current speeches. It's amazing how consistent his approach has been for the past ten years.)
The reason I doubt his speeches will do much for you is that, if they haven't done anything for you yet, more of the same isn't going to do the job.

But I would suggest digging up some of his more informal stuff and interviews instead.

I'd start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzmXy226 po
People talk a LOT about his 2002 speech, but this is an interview where he lays out EXACTLY why he opposes the war in Iraq. It's a remarkably accurate prediction of the problems we were going to run into during an invasion, and one of the reasons I trust his foreign policy chops.

Then, I'd move to some of his early town halls in Iowa. I always loved his speeches, but the way he answered the questions really sold me. He would field stuff from NRA guys, anti-abortion folks, and talk to them honestly and frankly about his beliefs and what we can do as Americans to come together on some of these issues. I caught most of them on C-Span, but I can't find any good links at the moment.


by EvilAsh on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:04:23 PM EST

Re: Thank you for your honesty. (none / 0)

Thank you very much for your suggestions... I think I'm definitely going to have to read "Dreams of My Father."


by xopherma on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 09:34:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've read everything I could (2.00 / 1)

and that's why I went for Hillary.

I plan to watch how he campaigns over the summer, see if he bones up on foreign policy and world history. I am open to voting for him. I want to see how he reacts to sagging poll numbers.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:34:14 PM EST

If you like speeches (2.00 / 1)

I would suggest these four:
2004 Keynote to the DNC.
Jefferson-Jackson dinner in Iowa..
Concession speech in New Hampshire.
Concession speech in Texas.

The poem mentioned earlier is performed at the Urbana Poetry Slam.

But then again I am a 23 year old student.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:55:04 PM EST

Re: Chicken Soup for the Clinton Supporter (none / 0)

I had to disappear for a bit, so I'm sorry I didn't get to reply to you all individually... I do greatly appreciate your feedback, though, and will be looking at all your suggestions (even the ones suggesting I need to bugger off 8^).


by xopherma on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 09:31:13 PM EST

curious... (none / 0)

a clinton supporter who thought this was over in iowa???

hhmm...  suspect.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 11:27:26 PM EST


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